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Post by pinegrov on Sept 7, 2012 19:53:29 GMT -5
Some one in the feeds thread suggested that we have a column in the newsletter about what to look for when culling. Why not have the discussion on this board? Perhaps the column could come from the collection of various member's experiences.
I cull for the obvious things like color defects, comb and leg problems, etc. One thing I would suggest is to not cull LF males too soon. The cockerals that mature early and look great at county fair time (end of July or early August) are not much good for the fall shows. Those gangly teenage looking types with immature combs may take several months longer to mature, but end up being the larger better looking specimans in the long run.
Vern
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Post by harrys on Sept 7, 2012 20:49:15 GMT -5
EYES: I cull for light color eyes for blacks, blues and some of the lavenders but do keep a lavender that is nice with light colored eyes till I can clean them up completely. I also check that the iris is perfectly round. I have had Ameraucanas with irregular iris this year plus one had the color of a mustard yellow which I have never seen before. The ameraucana issue is only for reference and otherwise would only be talking about Orpingtons here. Anyone else can add to this.
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Post by pinegrov on Sept 7, 2012 21:29:29 GMT -5
After I made my post, I thought about eye color too. I also have Black Cochin Bantams and they do not seem to get good eye color til they are a bit older, so cannot be so hasty with the culling on those.
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Post by gayle on Sept 8, 2012 21:25:29 GMT -5
From what I've been informed on the dark eyes in Orpingtons this is a sex- linked trait. so you my be able to slide on the females if their eyes are a weak brown as long as she is mated to a male with dark brown eyes. This will help to strengthen the eye color on the females, unfortunately the males that hatch will be split for light eyes and should not be used in the breeding pens. That is if you have a perfectly typy big robust black hen (with light eyes) that will make you break down and cry if you have to part with her.
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Post by d12chandler on Sept 10, 2012 14:58:43 GMT -5
Some people say the size in orp bantams are to large. I would rather keep a nice big one as a sorry small one. Those big ones win. One thing I have deal with in black bantams is white toe nails. I culled for this for 2 or 3 years and it never got any better. I just don't worry about it and it seems like it don't worry the judges either.
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Post by pinegrov on Sept 10, 2012 21:24:56 GMT -5
I have the same problem with toe nail color in my Black Orp Bantams and the judges have never said a word about it. I have also seen judges place a Black Orp with a bay red eye over the ones with brown eyes. And it is always the larger Orp Bantams that win.
Vern
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Post by d12chandler on Sept 11, 2012 13:18:53 GMT -5
Being big is one think and having a bunch of feathers is a different thing. My blacks do look big, but when you get your hands on them it different. If you can get them in a bantam cage with no problem they should be OK
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Post by gayle on Sept 18, 2012 9:03:28 GMT -5
here is a website which will guide a person through on judging your birds. www.caes.uga.edu/extension/dawson/4H/documents/JudgingLiveBirds.pdfThis focuses more on hen quality and bone structure. They even use some of the methods the old timers used. Orpingtons do not have yellow pigment, at least I don't think they have yellow pigment, so you can overlook that part, but if you do raise birds with yellow pigment this may be of interest. Also this will help you determine if you are breeding toward productivity of your flock. This gets down to the nitty gritty. |
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Post by gayle on Sept 18, 2012 11:08:50 GMT -5
Also cull hard for crooked and deformed keels.
Although many breeders claim this is from putting the birds on the roost to soon.
There are studies being done which claim this is genetics and more prevalent in some strains than others. This is a genetic problem which is influenced by environmental conditions.
If your birds do carry these genetics for keel deformity, do not let them roost during the brooding period (the first 10 weeks). and maybe there keel bones won't become crooked, you can only hope.
Some studies show this is a problem with in the chicken's metabolism, in turn leading to poor and improper growth. So this is a genetic problem.
From these studies it has been determine never use a chicken with a crooked keel bone in the breeding pen.
Studies show inheritance, roosting habit, and nutrition all play a part in keel bone deformity.
I have been at shows where judges have found birds with crooked keel bones. Yikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by gayle on Sept 18, 2012 12:07:50 GMT -5
scoliosis, wry tail, and green tail
Wry tails definitely should be culled out, but I had one breeder tell me before I cull make sure it is not a green tail. some roosters may lean there tail to the side when it is starting to grow out, if it is a normal tail it will straighten out. I guess growing a tail can be like cutting teeth.
Scoliosis is autosmal recessive and can show up usually after excessive line breeding, just cull it out.
One breeder explained to me that you can jumpstart on culling for the autosomal recessive scoliosis, wry tail, crooked spines by examining the skeletal structure of your breeders. Make sure the hip bones are lined up, shoulder bones are lined up. If the hip bones are set at an angle, do not use that bird in the breeding pen.
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Post by gayle on Sept 18, 2012 12:57:45 GMT -5
Do not let chickens in the breeding pens who have sour crop or a prolapse, you will just produce more like them. These are believed to be genetic based problems. It don't matter how big and beautiful they are do not let them reproduce. If one shows up in the breeding program and if you don't cull more will follow. Here is a website on dealing with birds that have sour crop, you do not want that problem. poultry.allotment.org.uk/advice/chicken-health/sour-cropyes a crop that does not function properly is considered a genetic problem. also crop bond birds fall into this group. Don't let them reproduce. |
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aveca
Full Member
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Post by aveca on Sept 20, 2012 12:54:23 GMT -5
Thanks for the excellent posts..i read a coop tag at show recently with lenghthy comment from judge explaining that this hen has weak hock joints otherwise an excellent specimine..it went on to suggest a solution but the hall was crowded didnt get to finish reading it..
We had one hen that had sour crop , not only on one occasion, so did not breed her..she was let out with freeroamers..
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Post by d12chandler on Sept 20, 2012 17:25:31 GMT -5
I have heard old chiken guy's say what to give a bird for soar crop, dang if I can remember. They thought it wasn't anythink bad. Those old gamecock guys knew alot about chickens and how to doctor them, I just can't remember. I culled on my std buffs today and got down to 11 ckls. I need to get rid of 5 more. I got a guy to take them and later on when it cools down he will butcher them. I get to go look them over before he butchers. I need to get him some chicks next year and let him raise them and let me pick a few, could be a little cheaper on the feed bill. I think size is another think that a guy can use in culling if they are the same age.
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Post by gayle on Sept 20, 2012 17:45:06 GMT -5
Its really not that bad if you keep up with the doctoring.
I believe the remedy is apple cider vinegar and yogurt.
They claim the bird is born with this problem they don't necessarily acquire this as they would a contagious disease.
They claim it is a genetic based condition that they are born with, where there crop does not empty out properly which leaves a good environment for bacteria and fungus to grow in their crop.
Since it is genetic more will show up down the line.
I've had breeders tell me that it runs in their bloodlines.
It seems to be prevalent in certain bloodlines of poultry.
and there are some breeders who claim if you keep the birds with sourcrop out of the breeding pens you should be able to slow down the reproduction of sour crop in your flock.
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aveca
Full Member
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Post by aveca on Sept 21, 2012 7:59:16 GMT -5
So interesting, I have cider vinegar in the water right now..I get a bottle from the organic people every fall..it has bits in it, unfiltered, they love it...
Ive only ever had that 1 hen that had a real problem, she was australorp. everyone would come in at night with pretty full crops, all but her would go out like normal in the morning...looking back on it, I wasnt giving them any cider vinegar at that time..the organic people use it to ward off coccsidosis (sp) and other ailments, seems to work well for them. Im going to get a list of the things they use for treatments..I know they use garlic on occasion too fine powder for buggs..the birds smell like a salad when they are done..vinegar and garlic.
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