How big of stds is good!!

[d12chandler]

I was asked how big do I want my birds. On those standards, I have alway been told you can't get them to big
in a show. I do know it all has to do when we hatch birds in western Oklahoma. In late June, July and August
it's hot and hotter. We don't get any growing during that time. Therefore hatch early. You hear people say
the SOP says this is how big they are to be. I have had old times say that is the lightest they can be. Some say they
can't be over that. Is all you need to do is go to a show and see how those big guys are doing. I know bantams
is a different story. What are your thoughts?

[harrys]

Don, my idea is my breeders can never be too big. Then my culls meet the SOP for weight and can be shown. Just try and regain size after you loose it. I am talking Large Fowl not bantams since I own no bantams.

[lildinkem]

Don, I got into a big discussion about this subject. Those who were preachin to me to breed them to the standard were the bantam folks at Showbirdbid.com. Doug chimed in and what he said is what I believe in. Doug said, that the Standard when it comes to "LARGE FOWL" is a minimum. The standard when it comes to "BANTAMS" is a maximum. His logic to me makes sense. Large Fowl are meant to be LARGE. Some breeds that are larger size makes the birds look to be better in type.
My beef with weighing birds is mostly the time factor. Can you imagine how long it would take to weigh in 6,000 entries like at the Ohio Show? Wouldn't you hate to be the last few in that line?
Another issue is, IF they stick to the letter of the standard. Is 1/10 of a pound over standard max a DQ? I know my 2nd largest Buff cock is rite near 10.8 lbs. Do I not let him eat before a show, to not allow him to put on 3/10 of a pound in food and water to tide him over till he is judged? Doug teaches us to not put feed in the cage at a show until the bird is judged. So, if I do not let the bird eat or drink before the show, and then have to wait an additional time until judging, my bird can go up to 2 days before eating at these Ohio size shows. Sounds like a very ill thought of idea.
LARGE FOWL standard weight should be a MINIMUM, BANTAM weight should be a MAXIMUM. Forget weighing them. These judges can easily tell if a LF bird is under or IF a BANTY is too big. That is why we train these judges with many hours of clerking with our best judges.
Just my opinion, which seems to ALWAYS get these folks on my case since I do not bow to them and agree. I NEVER WILL EITHER. APA/ABA have done it this way for now, at least 75 years. Does anyone remember seeing what Doc Clevenger bought to shows in the 50's. Doc had a Buff Orp hen which was closer to 20 lbs then 10 lbs yet alone the standard max of 8.8 lbs. that bird of Doc's was undefeated in the days when there was hundreds of of Orps she had to compete against.
Leave it the hands and eyes of the judges to do their job.
Again, this is my opinion. I will NEVER change to what these purists want. I breed them as big as I can make em. Another Akers quote which I love to mention in this argument.

[gayle]

Yes I've always been told to breed the large standards big. Also make sure you breed big boned birds. Like they've told me, don't put a Cadillac body on a Volkswagen frame. There are cases where people had there birds so meaty/big, that the bone structure of the bird couldn't hold up the body weight of the bird. I had breeders tell me to watch the bone structure of the breeding stock, it can get out of whack fast if you don't keep a strict watch/selection on the breeding stock.

[littlechicklet]

Thanks to all who posted. I am glad to see this being discussed. Since I am still a newbie am I correct in that its the bird as a whole and not just size? For example if you have a 10# and a 13# cock birds the winner will be the best example of the breed and not just based on size? So if the 10# cock is a better representation of the breed it will win over the 13# and vice versa?

I like the idea of the LF weight being a min. but that's just my opinion just as tighter feathering and more visible hock is my preference. I don't know if my preferences are in line with the standard or not.

[d12chandler]

I think thats right. If the smaller bird has the best type, color and everything he sould win.
If they are both about the same the bigger bird usually wins. Size is very inportant.