To "split" or not to "split" That is the question?

[lildinkem]

Pic is blurry but you can see the color of a White chick who's daddy is from Harry's cock over a single comb White Wyandotte. In the pen he is in I have 3 different lineage hens. 2 are Pontious, one is from my buddies line from up north that has Korfus line crossed to his line. And I have the 2 Buff Sport hens. Before I started to hatch from this pen, I hatched from Harry's cock over his daughters. Some of them are from the Wyandottes some are from last year's Buff Sports. I hatched out about 50. 2 have vivid yellow skin the rest are pure clean white skin chicks. Now I am exclusively hatching from this pen with the cockerel and the three lines I described. As you can see, I am getting a higher percentage of Blue skin chicks. Many outcross a White to a Black or a Blue to get more vigor, more size and depth and width. I talked to Harry a week or two ago and he said, which I agree 100%, that if he had to do it again he would have not bred White to Blue or Black. He, says, and I can see his logic, your opening a huge cans worm so to speak of genetics work to eliminate the dark bird's darker leg trait then is worth to try and fix. He say the way to go if you can, not many can, is to use these Buff Sports to get the width, size, and depth from Exhibition Buff Orps lines instead of the darker orps lines. Luckily I have caught in time, and know which parent hens this chick comes from. Tomorrow both Pontious hens will be removed and my other White hen will be removed leaving only the Buff Sports. I much rather risk the yellow skin to pop up periodically then Blue skin. Now granted I am get about 4% yellow skin with the male I am using, another way to totally make sure I do not have the yellow skin issue and to still have split in some of the better built up varieties Like Buffs will not allow any skin color issues. I rather fight the brassiness then the dark legs. Again, this is what I have learned using both type of splits. My buddy said to me to only use his hen with Harry's cock. He too does not like to to split in other varieties. His line is pure White skin Orps.
This is the type of info you will not get on other site's Orp threads. That is why I post here to help out others before they may try doing the split thing.
Everyone have fun with your birds and share pics and lessons learn here to help out all.

[gayle]

Hi Bill
If I'm understanding you correctly you are wanting your white orpingtons to be on eb/eb.
Most white orpingtons are sitting on E/E which contributes to the grey hue in the legs.
white Wyndotes and white rocks are I believe eb/eb. and I believe most but not all Buff orps are eb/eb.

[gayle]

id+ will cause shanks to be dark in any breed. There are buff show lines which carry id+ also. this has nothing to do with yellow meat or white meat birds. yellow meat and white meat is autosomal linkage, while dark shanks is sex linked recessive.

[lildinkem]

I am not sure IF the Buff line I got from Joyce has that gene. I know, last season's pullets were in with Harry's cock. And none of their offspring have blue skin legs. Not to say they will not in the future. I have 2 yellow skin chicks. The 2 White hens I used with my large Cuckoo male have thrown nothing but blue legged Cuckoo cockerels. So, I am narrowing down the choices this trait is coming from.

[harrys]

Bill,
You should see what I am getting after adding the Imported white line into my birds. Since I hatched enough I do not need to deal with any of the obvious issues. I did add some of the black imported line (Julie's and Joys) to some and they are looking real good but I did not toe punch them. The ones I kept had white legs though.

[lildinkem]

Harry, you need to be careful. These 2 White hens have White skin legs too. But they throw ALOT of Blue legs. Some are so Blue I think they must be Splashes. No matter, I sold the 2 White hens this morning to a fella to give to his mother-in-law. Their very nice looking Whites. I have enough from them that IF one of these off white skin leg baby's looks good I can still have the genetics to continue to use them. I cleared out the pen with this big Cuckoo male and will be putting in some of the daughters of your White boy in with him. The Cuckoo has clear white skin legs. I figure I should get White girls from this breeding. And who knows how they will turn out. They will be big for sure.

[crystalwhite]

Hello everyone,
Here is a pic of one of my nice white cockerels.He is really wide and has a super nice tail,and no blue skin or shanks on this boy.Let me know what you think.

Attachments:

[Jon Alden]

Dang he is wide! That is a nice cockerel!

[crystalwhite]

Thanks Jon i really appreciate.
David

[lildinkem]

Davy, one thing to be aware of is the birds I am getting Blue leg skin from also are wide, nice tails and have no blue skin. But, they throw Blue skin, leggy & are narrower. Harry told me on the phone several times he is leary of some of the import white. He has had blue legs come from those lines. You will know more when you take brother to sister what you have hidden. No biggie either way. It is just one more trait to try and eliminate. My first 50 White chicks are from Harry's cock and his daughters. None of them have Blue legs. Just have to go back to what is working.
Since I sold off a few out of the pen that has this fella, I now can put in a couple of Harry's White cock's daughter in with him to get this inherit size into a line of Whites.


He is topping out at around 26 inches tall. All girls from him and these White girls will be White is the plan or the hope.

[gayle]

Jun 29, 2013 9:58:27 GMT -5 lildinkem said:

Harry, you need to be careful. These 2 White hens have White skin legs too. But they throw ALOT of Blue legs. Some are so Blue I think they must be Splashes. No matter, I sold the 2 White hens this morning to a fella to give to his mother-in-law. Their very nice looking Whites. I have enough from them that IF one of these off white skin leg baby's looks good I can still have the genetics to continue to use them. I cleared out the pen with this big Cuckoo male and will be putting in some of the daughters of your White boy in with him. The Cuckoo has clear white skin legs. I figure I should get White girls from this breeding. And who knows how they will turn out. They will be big for sure.

Bill
if you are getting Blue legs chicks off of White leg hens Your rooster is causing this. Your rooster is contributing the id+ sex link recessive gene. The blue leg color is carried on the male chromosome. Your rooster is carrying one copy of id+ sex linked reccessive blue legs. A rooster can carry/hide one copy of id+ and still have light white shanks. I hate to tell you this it is not the hens fault it is the roosters fault the female off spring have blue leggs.

[harrys]

Bill,
What Gayle stated sounds correct. Your cuckoo must have been from breeding black to white. I have only kept cuckoo hens with white legs. to use in my breeding program. I had my birds all cleaned up after I had crossed the original white to black several years ago. Now, looks like I will have to test mate the white young males I keep. Once they are test mated I am sure they will be the ones a preditor will kill first. Any hens I keep with Blue legs will go to another color breeding program. I have culled most of the blue legged chicks. Now, the problem is some of the white legged chicks have a grey cast to them when they start getting older and they will have to be culled also. Chick down color is all over the place, I had one that was almost as dark as a cuckoo chick that is molting pure white. I had my day old chicks previously corrected to only grey down with cuckoo markings. Culled 18 + cockerels mostly whites this week. My two last batches that I moved the males around have had a better percentage of white legs. Well, the challenge never ends no matter what you are breeding.

[lildinkem]

I just got off the phone with Gayle. What she said makes sense. The Blue leggers are coming from the Cuckoo male I just posted. He was in with them for near a month before I moved the hens out.
Here is how much of the genetics were passed down from these 2 White hens. First is is their brother. Next pic is the son of these hens. These 2 White boys look like their clones of each other. The younger one next to the White Columbian looking cockerel are both first week of March hatches.



I need to get a better pic of him. He is not even 4 months old and is just about the same frame size as the one above.

[harrys]

Bill,
First one looks like he is going to be very large and no Bunny tail there.

[lildinkem]

He is Gayle's line of Whites. He is 7 months old in that pic. The other White cockerel is 4 months old and he is the nephew of the one you like. Gayle said to add fluff one must use a fluffy male. I hope to make some which are fluffier then this fella.