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Post by bamachicken on Sept 14, 2013 13:18:21 GMT -5
I have never been able to tell difference in my black pens and the color of the ones that hatched from blues. I hear folks say you can and maybe you can on theirs. I saw a black hen win BV at a good size show and her owner told me she was out of a blue hen.
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Post by littlechicklet on Sept 15, 2013 10:35:34 GMT -5
Bill, Lemon Blue is a variety that is in the standard, go look, Blue Red is also, it is not what you have there. What you have is just blue with red leakage. From what I have been told by breeders of blue in other breeds, you want to have the Silver gene with the blue in order for better coloring, but that is hard to get since most breeders interbreed the lines of Blue and black birds within the breed. Red helps with the green sheen in the blacks. If I am asking this in the wrong place please point me in the right direction. I have blues and am trying to get a better understanding of how to breed them. So blues need the silver gene for better coloring but blacks need the red gene for better coloring? The problem of red color leakage in blues comes from blacks with the red gene being bred in blues? How do you find, for lack of better terminology, a "true" blue line and/or a "true" black line? Also where do the blacks from breeding blues get their sheen? If anyone knows of any good books (hopefully in layman's terms) will you please link them for me? Sorry for all the stupid newbie questions but I honestly am new and trying to learn. Thank you
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Post by gayle on Sept 15, 2013 19:55:10 GMT -5
Bill, Lemon Blue is a variety that is in the standard, go look, Blue Red is also, it is not what you have there. What you have is just blue with red leakage. From what I have been told by breeders of blue in other breeds, you want to have the Silver gene with the blue in order for better coloring, but that is hard to get since most breeders interbreed the lines of Blue and black birds within the breed. Red helps with the green sheen in the blacks. If I am asking this in the wrong place please point me in the right direction. I have blues and am trying to get a better understanding of how to breed them. So blues need the silver gene for better coloring but blacks need the red gene for better coloring? The problem of red color leakage in blues comes from blacks with the red gene being bred in blues? How do you find, for lack of better terminology, a "true" blue line and/or a "true" black line? Also where do the blacks from breeding blues get their sheen? If anyone knows of any good books (hopefully in layman's terms) will you please link them for me? Sorry for all the stupid newbie questions but I honestly am new and trying to learn. Thank you This is a very controversial area. Alot of old english breeders claimed they improve the green sheen in their blacks by breeding them to BBReds e+ wild type. But I have had breeders tell me that breeding silver into black birds will improve the green sheen. I had a line of green sheen blacks that were developed from silver birchen type blacks breed to blues. and wow did I get some good green sheen blacks. But here is the situations, there are several black lines out there and they either have Sex-linked gold or sex-link silver in them. And I had one breeder tell me you can have good blue which have sex -linked gold. What you probably want to avoid is birds that have autosomal red or mahogany breed into them. These reds will usually leak out on what they call the pyle area of the bird, which is the neck hackles, and saddle feather and show up in the wings. Hold your bird up in the sun, and the sunlight will reveal red breakage. There are judges who take black birds out in the sun looking for red breakage. You can also spot red breakage in blues by holding them up in the sun.
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Post by littlechicklet on Sept 15, 2013 21:21:49 GMT -5
If I am asking this in the wrong place please point me in the right direction. I have blues and am trying to get a better understanding of how to breed them. So blues need the silver gene for better coloring but blacks need the red gene for better coloring? The problem of red color leakage in blues comes from blacks with the red gene being bred in blues? How do you find, for lack of better terminology, a "true" blue line and/or a "true" black line? Also where do the blacks from breeding blues get their sheen? If anyone knows of any good books (hopefully in layman's terms) will you please link them for me? Sorry for all the stupid newbie questions but I honestly am new and trying to learn. Thank you This is a very controversial area. Alot of old english breeders claimed they improve the green sheen in their blacks by breeding them to BBReds e+ wild type. But I have had breeders tell me that breeding silver into black birds will improve the green sheen. I had a line of green sheen blacks that were developed from silver birchen type blacks breed to blues. and wow did I get some good green sheen blacks. But here is the situations, there are several black lines out there and they either have Sex-linked gold or sex-link silver in them. And I had one breeder tell me you can have good blue which have sex -linked gold. What you probably want to avoid is birds that have autosomal red or mahogany breed into them. These reds will usually leak out on what they call the pyle area of the bird, which is the neck hackles, and saddle feather and show up in the wings. Hold your bird up in the sun, and the sunlight will reveal red breakage. There are judges who take black birds out in the sun looking for red breakage. You can also spot red breakage in blues by holding them up in the sun. Thank you! I did not know there was such a controversy in this. I will take my blues and blacks tomorrow in the sun and check them closely. So far I do not have any with any leakage that I can see but I will recheck. I maybe wrong but I have a good gut feeling on the black I am going to try in the spring or maybe its just hope.
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Post by lildinkem on Sept 16, 2013 19:53:42 GMT -5
I have a gene which is similar to the same gene that makes a Black Copper Marans look like a Black Copper Marans. I dunno the official term. I call it a 2 pattern gene. I have made a couple of Brown/Reds. Shown one at Crossroads. I like their type. I have had Black Copper Marans in the past. My experience in this variety is only been from using my birds. I have hatched out all Black Marans from breeding a Black Marans hen to a Black Copper cock, so I breed my Brown/Reds with the knowledge I can make some in ALL Black breeding a Brown/Red cock to an all Black hen. I can do the same with Blues. I only have hatched out a little over a dozen Blues this season. Outta the first 3 cockerels, only one have shown this red pattern gene. you can call it what ever you like. You say what ever makes you feel better does not bother me. I will still use em.. Far as the "green" sheen goes. I hatched out one rather puny Silver Birchen cockerel this season. Nothing about him I like except his green sheen. The others I hatched out from my Black cock here and his brother have thrown nicely even green sheen just not as brite or loud or electric green as the Silver Black Birchen. Still will cull him though. IF I made him, the same pair is still able to make a much nicer Silver Birchen potentially.. The one in the pic below is my best type Black Orp cockerel I have hatched out last season in both my Blacks and Blues. I know "type" is what I am after. Since I do not sell any of my birds for money (occasionally will give some away), I can deal with what I get. This Black started out as a cockerel with about a dozen Red feathers. He has none now. I did not pull them out. IF he or another chicken did is fine with me. But, this is what I want in an Orp. I do not fear RED LEAKAGE if they make birds like this.
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Post by littlechicklet on Sept 16, 2013 22:03:02 GMT -5
Leave it to me to pick out the "pretty" blues to like. LOL I saw them at a show and had no clue how hard it would be to breed. I am going to give it my best shot and see what happens. If I fail its okay because I still enjoy my blacks and buffs.
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Post by d12chandler on Sept 17, 2013 9:52:52 GMT -5
You won't fail, you just have to raise several and cull the bad ones. When you get it right, there are very nice to look at.
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Post by littlechicklet on Sept 17, 2013 18:13:18 GMT -5
Thanks Don. I will try. It seems to me the blues have a lot more "issues" to try to overcome but like you said "when you get it right, nice to look at"
The ones from you are doing well. I have one I am watching more than the others in the pullets. I still haven't held the blues or blacks up in the sun but will get around to it.
ETA: Bill I really like the clean face on the black you posted. I don't know that mine are that clean and he has a nice looking chest (if that's the right term)....maybe breast?
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Post by crystalwhite on Nov 16, 2013 11:35:45 GMT -5
Here is a pic of my favorite blue hen.
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Post by Heaven Sent Ranch on Mar 9, 2014 17:29:05 GMT -5
Here is a pic of my favorite blue hen. Hi All, Here are three pictures. Two of my Blue Roo, half Korfus, half Ramsley. One of my favorite Hen, half Korfus, half Santa Cruz Mnt. She is playing in the mud! lol
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Post by Heaven Sent Ranch on Mar 9, 2014 17:36:18 GMT -5
Here is a pic of my favorite blue hen. Hi All, Here are three pictures. Two of my Blue Roo, half Korfus, half Ramsley. One of my favorite Hen, half Korfus, half Santa Cruz Mnt. She is playing in the mud! lol Here is a better picture of my roo. In the background you can see my 74lb Stafford-shire for size comparison. So do you think he is worthy of breeding for future. Debi Attachments:
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Post by d12chandler on Mar 9, 2014 18:08:38 GMT -5
Hi Deb, looks like you have been doing some good orp breeding. Nice Blue Boy!!
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Post by sgtilton on Mar 9, 2014 18:33:33 GMT -5
You all have some beautiful orpingtons! I want to get some blue ones so bad, but they are so rare here in Arizona!
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Post by d12chandler on Mar 9, 2014 19:53:48 GMT -5
You arte in Debs backyard!
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Post by sgtilton on Mar 10, 2014 15:54:39 GMT -5
It'd be a big back yard! Just about the same distance from Oklahoma actually lol.
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